Tenterfield NSW Natural process is all you need to explain life. You - - PowerPoint PPT Presentation
Creation vs Evolution debate 12 April 2013 Tenterfield NSW Natural process is all you need to explain life. You dont need a Creator! Ian Bryce BSc (Physics) BE (Hons) VP, Secular Party of Australia Chief Investigator, Australian
Ian Bryce BSc (Physics) BE (Hons) VP, Secular Party of Australia Chief Investigator, Australian Skeptics
This is a longer version, which includes the slides presented in the debate.
Creation “Science” Foundation in 1983 presented papers showing the speed of light was slowing
from the record – making his conclusions false.
Dinosaur footprints overlaid with human footprints – Paluxy River in Texas. Creation “Science” Foundation (under John Mackay) were selling casts of such footprints for $100 in 1983. They have now retracted that claim!
There are many methods of measuring the age
more.
Solar system formation Moon rocks Meteorites on earth Meteorites from Mars Modelling of every process
As in all science, there is a process of research and development. The circumstances in which a given method is accurate, need to be established. Thus provisional results may differ from
In fact, all established methods of dating agree. The current estimate of the age of the earth is 4.54 +/-0.05 billion years. This means there is 95% confidence that the true age is between 4. 39 and 4.59 billion. That’s 1% accuracy.
Now for the universe. Creationisis hold that the universe and the earth were formed simultaneously about 6000 years ago. This they base on deriving a timeline all the way from Adam, through his descendants, to the present, as reported in the Old Testament. However when cross-checked with all science and the historical record, it is completely unreliable.
JM has told us he has heard secientists report the age of the universe asjumping between 15, 10 and 13 billion years, to show how unreliable this dating is! Accuracy and reliability are very important in
their understanding of statistics.
That is why things like ages always have a tolerance band. The figures quoted may well have been: 15 +/- 5 10 +/- 4 13 +/- 1 The current estimate is 13.80 ± 0.04 billion years. This process of estimating uncertainty, maximizes confidence in scientific statements – not something the Creationists understand.
These results can be shown in a chart.
Note the logarithmic scale – each division represents a factor of 10. Left = 1 year. 1.E+03 = 1 x 103 = 1000 years. 1.E+09 = 1 x 109 = 1 billion years.
The uncertainty for the creationist figures is never given, because they have no way of cross-checking. The uncertainty for the scientific results are actually the width of the lines, which is 1% or less.
So we have seen zero real evidence from the creationists supporting a young earth or special creation. And a coherent body of scientific knowledge supporting evolution. It is easy to point to millions of lines of evidence supporting science. When the score is a billion to zero, should you consider changing sides?
JM reports (The Reason Why No. 3) that God created the “waters” with three gaps between them. One space includes the surface of the earth and all life. Another space includes the sun and moon. The third space is where God lives. How could a young person go on to study agriculture
Garden of Eden? JM has his own theories, as expounded in his radio show the Reason Why:
Q: Did Poo did stink in the Garden of Eden? A: No, because everything was perfect, and the bad bugs were not invented until the Fall! Q: How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? A: We know it was no more than a month, because they would have mated straight away, and the bible has Eve not getting pregnant until they left. Q: Why did Adam have nipples? A: Because God equipped Adam with all physical features Eve (being made in his image) would need later. [John has apparently not heard of the vagina. He needs get out more!]
Q: Where did all that water come from? JM (The Reason Why) explains that the bible says the water came from “the fountains of the deep” (Genesis 8)– ie underground. This would require a layer of water kilometers deep. With rocks floating on top of it! There goes all physics. Students can forget a career in science once they swallow this!
Ant
Fish
Cross breeding on ark
This one has extra legs growing out of its head. Not a likely survivor…
Two extra wings – in the passage of time, this mutation could lead to a superior flying ability, like dragonflies. Note this is an added characteristic, not a “mere degradation” or “devolution” as JM claims
DOG COLOR Note the colors of our dogs (looking for the ball). Black, blue, white, red. NOT merely selecting existing characteristics of their ancestors (wolves)
Fossils, extant characteristics and genetic data - all give a coherent picture of how the current animals evolved. Note dogs branching from wolves about 15,000 years ago.
Sources of data about evolutionary paths: A: Observation of extant (current) animals – eg Darwin B: Fossils – give snapshots of the shape and function
C: Phylogenetics – by measuring DNA, the “genetic distance” between current species can be measured. Can use: mitochondrial DNA, count by genes, count by base pairs.
Note: 1. No dates – this does not include fossil data.
This is an “unrooted” phylogenetic tree. It is based entirely on the measured genetic distance between 13 extant species. No “first life” has been estimated. Note human and chimp almost indistinguishable!
This diagram shows Primate relations estimated from extant (currently alive) species…
These two sources can be reliably combined into one tree with dates. Note human’s short history!
Archaeopteryx continuity: Top = char. of current birds Bottom = char. of current reptiles
Canetoads – new ecological niche in Kakadu. In decades we see longer legs evolving.
a) Longer distance moved in 3 days b) Earlier arrival in Kakadu c) The surviving fittest
Peppered Moth. The numbers
dark ones change as their environment gest darker - for better camoflage
Finally… species are blurred today – tigers and lions can mate, but do not normally do so. “God’s created kinds” is a myth! The result: A Tigon!
“Absolutes” “Rules” Remember that!
Creation Research (J Mackay): Believing the Bible is the written word of
throughout. Its assertions are factually true and it is the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.
Creation Research (J Mackay) #2 We accept the final guide to the interpretation of Scripture is Scripture. CIRCULAR REASONING! Three bears?
Exodus 4:24 “The lord met Moses and sought to kill him”. Kill?? Moses was his best friend! Sought?? You said He is all-powerful!
Numbers 31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Ireland: 16,000 claims Victoria: 10,000 victims Australia: 50,000? TBD Doing what their god ordered!
“To decide whether to have an abortion, ie chop up babies, where do you turn? Evolution or creation?” (The Reason Why no 4) I took John’s advice, and looked in the Bible…. “So we boiled my son and ate him” (II Kings 6) “Their children will also be dashed to pieces before their eyes” (Isaiah 13) “…their infants will be dashed in pieces, and their women with child ripped open” (Hosea 13)
We would expect Jesus say: I disavow all the horrible crimes my father perpetrated. Instead he says: Do not think I came to destroy the Law of the Prophets [ie Moses]…I came to fulfill … One jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law… (Matthew 5)
Its easy to find 99 other examples. Genocide, murder, rape, child mutilation etc. Book “When God speaks for himself” Mark Tier God #1, God #2, Holy book, and Prophet – (All the pillars of fundamentalists) confirmed these actions. The Creationists hold this book up at their moral authority! Remember they offer “absolutes”!
Integrity? Dr Andrew Snelling for a period was writing reports for geology companies using conventional dating – millions
…while simultaneously addressing schools giving an age
Ref: Dr Alex Ritchie, The Skeptic, Vol. 11, No. 4, pp 12-15 Snelling returned this explanation: …myself in such a situation is forced to use their evolutionary terminology whether we like it or not.
Flowchart of creationist organizations (currently a sketch) Is maze of name changes, schism, mergers, lawsuits, backstabbing, theft etc.
CSA 1977
Wieland Ex Nihilo
CSEMS 1979
Mackay & Ham
CSF 1980
W, M, H Creation Ex Nihilo Snelling Worked in geology
CR 1987
Mackay Name change
AIG 1997
Sarfati New Zealand
1996 1983
Mackay 1987
CSM 1994 AIG 1995 ICR 1972
Henry Morris II
Ham 1994 Merged? Snelling 1998
USA Australia
name change
CMI 2006
Wieland
AIG 2013
Ham, Snelling Answers Research J. Museum Reproduction Ark?
CR 2013
Mackay
CMI 2013
Wieland Creation mag. Journal of Creation
ICR 2013
Henry Morris IV Ham
SCHISM 2006
CSRC 1970
Henry Morris I, II
CRS 1963
Walter Lammerts
CRS 2013
Kevin Anderson Creation Matters CRS Quarterly
GRI 2013
Related orgs in Canada, NZ, Sth Af. Branches in
countries
Creationist
Australia and USA
Ian Bryce Draft April 2013
GRI 1957
Adven- tist
Ham and Wieland - MacKay’s past colleagues, co-founders
2006 [Ham at AiG US]… asking, in correspondence to the Australian CEO Carl Wieland, if he had issues with immorality, and enlisting a former enemy to exhume decades-old allegations[8] of witchcraft and necrophilia! Also involves subscribers list (the most valuable asset), magazine, defamation, and the sum of $252,000. There was a mediation session in Hawaii but it fell apart – the world’s leading creationists could not trust each other!
But remember… The Bible [as illuminated by Creationists] is the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct!
1980: Australian Skeptics were set up Journal: The Skeptic Committee: I was there in 1980 2013: Australian Skeptics Inc Journal: The Skeptic Committee: I am still there 32 years later(some have come and gone)
Creationists Scientists and skeptics Promise Absolutes, certainty, a foundation The best current knowledge, universal values Provide Frequent changes, schisms, mergers, lawsuits, hatred, necrophilia The best current knowledge, accountability, stability
You now have a choice of which belief system to follow
Freethough organisations
Quite a track record
Science Foundation”
the “science” in creationism
changed name to “Answers in Genesis”
The disclaimer under the heading says “Consumer Warning: NSW Fair Trading has directed AVN to change its name because it regards the name to be misleading…
You could consider the view that a God initiated the universe… and then left it to the laws of physics!